SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

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    SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Labakittie on Sat 02 May 2009, 8:52 pm

    Introduction: I decided to divide this editorial into two parts and give just a hint of background into why these opinion pieces have even been written, and try very much to explain why I drew these conclusions, and how even now, I write what I do without any malice or hatred for anyone. I hope at the end of the reading, your understanding of what I have to say is clear and that I have expressed myself to the best of my ability. Thank you.


    An Inquiry



    A few weeks ago, on a Kpop Secrets thread no less, I voiced the opinion that SNSD was a group marketed largely on their image rather than genuine talent. Many before me have lamented the sad state of music today where people who are pretty but lacking true musical talent are at the forefront and people who are less physically appealing but talented no less are pushed to the back. Such an opinion, regardless of whom it's directed at, is not new. In many cases, it's actually the truth. Of itself, it is not an unreasonable opinion. For example, when you compare SNSD to past SM-trained and owned female groups and solo artists, the talent gap becomes more obvious. When you compare the group to ALL past SM artists (and even artists that came after them), they are clearly the weakest link.

    And so, what other opinion could I be expected to have after coming to these conclusions?

    The SNSD fans who descended on me, goading me to change my opinion, goading me with facts I now realize was nothing more than fangirl fluff, obviously thought it was possible, and almost insisted I take another look.

    I was told that I was being unfair to this group, that I didn't know enough about them, that should I find out more, dig deeper, and put aside my bias, I would see that they are as talented and hard working a group as any other artist.

    So I thought, Was I being unfair? After all, I didn't know that much about the group outside of Yoona, who was the only member of SNSD I was remotely interested in. She always struck me as a classy lady and I liked her. Why, I don't know. I don't say this in regret...I genuinely don't know why. It's an unexplainable mystery.

    But anyway, since I didn't know that much about the group or its members, I thought that maybe I really was being a bit unfair. So I commented that I would learn more about the group and then draw an opinion when I felt I'd learned all I needed to know.


    The Good, the Bad, and the Truly UGLY



    At first, as I learned more about SNSD, I liked them. I saw pictures or gifs of them being quirky, I laughed. I was impressed with the vocals of some, and the dance capabilities of others. I thought that maybe, just maybe, I had been unfair towards this group of lovely girls. Maybe their predecessor CSJH hadn't caught on because Korean fans didn't like them, rather than uneven and unfair marketing techniques enacted by SM. And maybe the anti-fan phenomenon was simple jealousy.

    Case closed, right?

    Only NOT really.

    I kept digging anyway, and a word popped out: boycott.

    Eh?

    I remembered the Dream Concert fiasco but wasn't heavily invested enough to take a deeper look at the time. I had even drawn the conclusion that fans of ALL groups involved were spoiling the concert for everyone, and that they should all be ashamed of themselves. I then went on with my life.

    However, my recent inquiry into SNSD forced me to revisit the issue.

    I googled SNSD, boycott, Dream Concert, and the reasons behind such a strong negative view of the group. What I found?

    http://asianfanatics.net/forum/SNSD-Boycotted-during-2008-Dream-Concert-talk549151.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLxu37c1Tmk (Video of the Dream Concert Boycott)
    http://shenyuepop.com/2008/06/09/behind-the-scene-at-the-2008-dream-concert/
    http://mynamjachingu.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/27/
    http://nycseoultokyo.com/2008/05/25/snsd-under-fire-again/
    http://shenyuepop.com/2009/01/16/snsd-leader-is-a-racist/
    http://popseoul.com/2009/01/17/taeyeon-of-girls-generation-belittles-nurses/
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yllq_HjKk-Q (Video of Tiffany giggling about a rhyme in relation to commentary...on an EARTHQUAKE.)

    I could go on and on about links I found, videos I watched, etc., but this pretty much forms the core of what I looked into:

    Accusations of rudeness and disrespect
    Lack of tact or maturity
    Questionable behavior in relation to hiking up skirts and allowing for panty shots
    Comments and actions that reflected badly on the individual and their group
    A disconnect between the image itself ans just who SNSD was actually being marketed towards
    The apparent lack of leadership in SNSD
    Quotes by SNSD members that revealed a rather lackluster personality
    The ability to unite squabbling fandoms in absolute hatred. Something to not be overlooked.
    Being forced to go into virtual seclusion for nearly a year due to the controversies

    It seemed that SNSD had formed a virtual time line of controversies that could be traced from the first inklings of disgust after their 2007 debut to eye-rolling attention whoring as recently as a month or so ago. In a rather short time it seemed, the group had stacked up enough offenses to warrant action being taken by fans of other groups and a negative take on them by many netizens.

    I weighed my findings of negative aspects against the good aspects of SNSD (their looks, the talents of members, etc.), and I found that the bad far outweighed the good. No small weight was the actions and attitudes of their fans, but more on that later.

    I felt I had no choice but to write a rather unflattering but nonetheless sincere opinion piece in my journal, wanting very much to voice my feelings. It was not written as a put-down, as a hate piece, or from the point of view of an anti. It was simply how I felt: That SNSD should be dissolved, talented members be promoted as solo artists, and more focus should be made on more talented and less troublesome artists.

    The Verdict



    (The following is the original opinion piece as it appears in my journal. Please do not copy or paste this anywhere else...I've gotten enough grief. -.-)


    SNSD: Talentless, tasteless trash?!

    I recently decided to learn more about the Korean pop group So Nyeo Shi Dae or SNSD, also known as Girl's Generation. This was prompted by the possibility that I was being unfair in my opinion of this group, which was basically that they were largely marketed off of an image, and basically lacking in any genuine talent.

    Harsh, huh?

    Well, after engaging in a lengthy discussion with SNSD fans, I decided that maybe I WAS being unfair, and decided to listen to more of their music and find out about individual members for myself.

    Afterward, I could draw my own conclusion.


    And what is that conclusion?

    I think the group should be disbanded.

    Don't let the title fool you, I don't despise SNSD (and it was basically a play on what I've seen written about them), but I have decided that as a group, they are far more trouble than they are worth.
    There ARE talented members. Some can sing. Some can dance.

    However....as a group, their troubles and tendency to make trouble (for themselves and other groups) far outweighs their talent. Initially, my problem was the use of an image as a crutch in the face of what I felt was mediocre talent. I now consider that to be secondary. A group that is disrespectful and rude, whose members cannot conduct themselves like mature professionals, and whose leader is too weak to stand up for herself or her members and sets a godawful example for those under her really has no business in the entertainment field.

    SNSD, I'm afraid that you have been weighed, measured, and found wanting.

    Taeyeon, you have a lovely voice, but you have the spine of a squid and lack any genuine leader qualities. A true leader does just that: Leads by example. A leader does not let others make excuses or apologies for them: they own up to their mistakes, and they strive to improve, and they make those around them want to be better. When other artists are being hospitalized for exhaustion because they are literally too tired to move or talk, Taeyeon's "sickness" excuse holds no water with me. She seems to have made no effort to rein in the disrespectful behavior of her members. With all the anti-fans they continue to make, you'd think by this point she'd give anyone who did anything out of the way a death glare. I question what on Earth made SM decide to pick this sometimes visibly hapless girl as the leader of this group.

    Tiffany, I do not care whether or not you've had multiple surgeries. That is irrelevant to me. But I must say you are the most idiotic, rude, and thoughtless person in Kpop. Even comedians who bash artists for a living have more tact than you. What kind of person laughs, even thinks to laugh, when someone is discussing something as serious as a freaking earthquake? Are you crazy? Are you stupid? I do not care if something rhymes and that tickles your fancy, do you honestly think making a joke when someone is referring to working to help survivors of a truly destructive force of nature is going to make you come across as anything less than a dumb heartless creep?

    I am seriously done. I had rolled my eyes at your childish behavior in the past, and I had even resigned myself to the fact that you were merely my least favorite Kpop artist. But watching that clip...I just could not fathom that anyone, any professional artist, any human being, could be so ridiculous and not realize how ridiculous they were being. If I were a Chinese fan, I would be heart-broken and embarrassed that my idol could be so casual and blas in the face of something so serious and someone else working to make a difference.

    I have seen footage, I have read info, and I have shaken my head in horror and disgust at the behavior of these girls. I am stunned, just stunned at my findings, both relating to individuals and as a group. I cannot believe that LSM would even dream of letting them get away with it, but I now suspect having his niece in the group may be a reason for some of the leniency. That and stubborn refusal to acknowledge massive outcry in relation to the actions of the members. What else could it have been when TV networks purposely edited footage of the Dream Concert last year to give a false impression of support when the boycott of this group was a hot topic all across the Internet?

    And this hatred has NOT gone away, even as fans insist that the recent success of "Gee" (which occurred, I've now noted, with no true competition on on the market) is proof of how far the group has come.

    I think with the Hollywood Bowl and another Dream Concert swiftly approaching, it will just get uglier and uglier for SNSD, and at this rate, it would not surprise me in the slightest if a member (or the group) did something to further agitate people.

    And it is for that reason that I say disband them.

    They are largely unpopular with their target audience (teenage girls), a bad influence on said teenage girls in terms of etiquette and manners, and seem only capable of generating largely negative feedback.

    You really CANNOT blame this on jealously. Yes, some fangirls may be jealous, but I certainly am neither a fangirl or jealous. I acknowledge the beauty of the members, and the talents that some have.

    However, after reading and watching what I have, I am left with a very bad taste in my mouth.

    I'm fairly sure that as SM goes further into the red, and investors, not anti-fans, make their voices heard, eventually LSM will wise up and cut his losses. Honestly, I'm thinking that will be best for everyone.


    To any SNSD fan that happens across this:

    Rant all you want, you will not change my mind.



    EDIT: After thinking about it, I've decided that maybe some members could see success if marketed as individuals.



    END PART I


    Okay, this is the end of the first half. I get more detailed with the conclusions drawn in the second half, and explain why such an expansion was even necessary.

    Thanks! Any questions or comments, feel free to ask. Mods feel free to edit or move if it's necessary.
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Bento_box on Sun 03 May 2009, 6:21 am

    This was pretty much in the right place, first time round

    I think I've already stated before that I agree completely with your findings Razz

    Sometimes people would rather assume that the one reason people turn "anti" is because of small and petty things, they would rather not bother to realise that the reasoning behind it is actually so much more deeper than they think.

    The world is not simple, life is not simple, so many people gathering together Internationally against one group, must have its valid reasons. Its ignorant to think that so many people would simply get together due to "jealousy".

    It's also extremely ignorant to simply think that this is "hate". I've said it so many times that I do not think this values or warrants such strong feelings, simply because I have my convictions and they remain strong, does not mean I hate them. I've simply made a decision, stuck to it, and know what I think and feel is right.

    Popular culture feeds the youth, shapes the youth and makes them in to the new generation. Just because they claim to be "Girls' Generation" and they cry out "Right Now it's Girls Generation", like a Spice Girls rip off, doesnt mean they should be supported. If anything, it makes them more disgusting. As we all know grand master LSM markets them and is proud of marketing them to the 30-40 year old pedo crowd. Pedo why? Because he encourages and makes sure that the girls act as young as they possibly can. Not only is dressing them up as little girls degrading, but, misleading, disgusting and objectifying them on a whole other level compared to other idol groups.

    And don't get me started on their behavior. Honestly, for me, it's a case of, the more they're in the limelight, the more you realise they're as rude as eachother... And that none of them ever had Star Power to begin with, and it doesnt take much skill or training to prounce around with simple choreography, even more simple "singing" and acting like 8 year olds.

    Thanks Labakittie for the intriguing and entertaining editorial, can't wait for the second part. :D


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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by jaejae19 on Sun 03 May 2009, 7:03 am

    Wow. I never thought someone would be as eloquent as my dear halmou~ Ehehe. ^^

    When I first came across SNSD, I actually "nothing" them; I was honestly indifferent because 1. I was never really into girl bands, and 2. They posed no significant difference in my life. I even attempted to give them a chance, and yes, just like you, I acknowledged the abilities of some members. Heck, even as a self-proclaimed Cassie, I thought the Haptic CF was good and purely for marketing's sake.

    But all their bad deeds just started to surface and pile up. And it's so unimaginable for one group to be very insensitive, feigning "un-awareness" and innocence (*barf*) of the bad things they're doing..... unbelievable that they can even call themselves representatives of today's girls' generation.

    And yes, I can truly say that STAND is not doing this because of jealousy. Our cause would have died long ago if it's only because of jealousy, ne?

    I <3d your writing Labakittie! Looking forward to the next part. ^^


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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Labakittie on Sun 03 May 2009, 8:39 am

    Bento-box wrote:This was pretty much in the right place, first time round

    Okay good. :) I went and was reading the Anti Fan articles and sort of Sad

    Glad to know I put it in the right place. ^^


    It's also extremely ignorant to simply think that this is "hate". I've said it so many times that I do not think this values or warrants such strong feelings, simply because I have my convictions and they remain strong, does not mean I hate them. I've simply made a decision, stuck to it, and know what I think and feel is right.

    I totally agree! And I kind of want to scream that part from the rooftops. I always wondered WHY some people assume that you must be motivated by hatred rather than simply coming to your own conclusion based on facts rather than emotions?

    -_____-

    I wonder if it's because their reasoning is guided by emotions rather than reason and so they assume it's true for everyone. :/


    Just because they claim to be "Girls' Generation" and they cry out "Right Now it's Girls Generation", like a Spice Girls rip off, doesnt mean they should be supported.

    OMG, I didn't even realize that. You're right. O_O



    And don't get me started on their behavior. Honestly, for me, it's a case of, the more they're in the limelight, the more you realise they're as rude as eachother... And that none of them ever had Star Power to begin with, and it doesnt take much skill or training to prounce around with simple choreography, even more simple "singing" and acting like 8 year olds.

    Again, I totally agree. What's interesting is, and I kind of left it out of this version, they seemed to have regressed. Their music has regressed and even their attitudes have regressed. I feel like progression-wise, they've gone backwards. They seem so child-like, which is even creepy with being openly marketed to dirty old men.

    As far as star quality, yeah, it's definitely lacking. They don't have that pull or spark. They just have Uncle LSM shoving them down people's throats. :/



    jaejae19 wrote:
    But all their bad deeds just started to surface and pile up. And it's so unimaginable for one group to be very insensitive, feigning "un-awareness" and innocence (*barf*) of the bad things they're doing.

    I'm reminded of Kangin having to apologize for Taeyeon. I still don't understand how this person seems incapable of apologizing for herself. Also, as far as I can tell, the girls haven't themselves apologized for anything. SNSD fans point to a note that was released, but I honestly believe that was the work of a PUBLICIST, and not the actual group.

    It's really sickening to me that SM and their label mates have to "coddle" these girls rather than let them stand on their own two feet and speak for themselves. Or maybe their afraid they'll say something even more idiotic.
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Bento_box on Mon 04 May 2009, 11:58 am

    The first step you take in to the industry tends to shape the rest of your career. It goes with the intentions you had in the first place as well. I know this is an "ideal" and cliched way of thought, yet its a cliche for a reason, because afterall it started as truth...

    Your passion and your influences will shape your destiny, so if you came in to showbusiness with intentions simply fuelled by getting the most "attention" you can, then well, you'll get that attention, but it doesnt necessarily mean positive.

    See, SM every since the H.O.T days has been the place to Audition for all the bright eyed talents, or wannabe talents, in Korea. It's the most accessible Entertainment company, holding auditions all over Korea, in the US and now other places in Asia and Canada. So, of course they'll get people who only strive for "fame". Its sad to see that kids nowadays will most likely want to be a "celebrity" rather than a Doctor for instance. And coming form an Asian family, lol, it speaks volumes.

    Honestly if these girls were worth the promotions I wouldnt be so angry, and if they tried to redeem their negative image by having wholesome and sincere personalities, then good for them. But unfortunately, I can only categorize them in the way Ive been hinting at. The type of people that simply seek fame and nothing else, perhaps karma has creeped it's way in to this, afterall intentions are highly important in what you do. Intention doesnt reap the wanted results, but it shapes how you come out of it in the end.

    These girls, instead of learning form their mistakes and redeeming themselves in some way, have instead, fuelled the anti fans and public in thinking that they have done anything but. Somehow some of the members have come out after DC, more arrogant than they were initially.... That baffles me. And in result, they simply reaffirm why they were protested against. Besides the panties, they wear skin tight (and in some instances a size smaller) skinny jeans now (so much for improving a tainted image)... Um... how is that an improvement? Instead of seeing their panties fanboys just dont need to use their imaginations to know what was beneath those short skrts and "safety shorts". O_O

    Behavior as well, I'm sorry to all her fans here, but SooYoung, the more she's in the limelight, she proves to be as rude as her groupmates. And I honestly thought of her as one of the better ones initially. She throws in honorifics sometimes, and then throws them out at others, consistancy in what you say and do, proves your sincerity. Thanks SooYoung for making us know that you too, are simply after the fame.

    I have tried over and over again to give the girls the benefit of the doubt, even as an Admin here, yet they always end up in the same place they always were.

    It just makes me wonder, what in the world have they been training to do in SM all these years?


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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Labakittie on Mon 04 May 2009, 6:29 pm

    ^
    ^

    Yeah, it's sad. I wonder if they were given the impression they could do whatever and so all the etiquette training fell by the wayside.

    I think as it becomes more and more apparent what a rude group they are, people will want less and less to do with them. I honestly feel the only reason they're so visible now is because they're being forced on people.

    I think the only thing that would help members is the group completely crashing and burning.

    Nothing humbles a person more thoroughly than failure.
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by anti_9 on Tue 05 May 2009, 4:25 am

    I agree to what everything you said.

    And also to Bento_box...--> Yeah i think that others becomes an ANTI for little things. I'm an ANTI by heart (trust me on that). Before SNSD even debuted, i was already against it. At first i didn't really had the exact reasons to why i really hate them but as time passes by and all those things they did, the insults, the misbehavior and not to mention disrespects from other singers.

    The thing is they're so obsess in becoming famous that they would actually do just about anything to make people talk about them. They don't care whether they hurt other feelings. And what i certainly hate about them is that they APOLOGIZE to a celebrity they've hurt if it's already in the news. I mean, if you have said something ill about someone that you didn't mean to, couldn't you just apologize immediately rather than waiting days after when it's already on the news and people already started talking about it?!

    Sometimes their SO-CALLED "APOLOGY" feels scripted to me. argghh!!!
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Mizuki on Tue 05 May 2009, 10:03 am

    PWNAGE. Razz
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by spuffy on Thu 07 May 2009, 5:55 pm

    I agree with a lot of what you've said and I commend you on your composition.

    P.S. After reading your articles, I've decided to join the forum.:)
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Labakittie on Thu 07 May 2009, 7:38 pm

    Welcome! :)

    Hope you enjoy yourself. Surprise

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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by BbBoo on Sat 09 May 2009, 6:03 pm

    ok honestly, at first i was very nil towards snsd. though i enjoyed the bashing and the hate, my only real thoughts are that they can't sing live and they have a lot of growing up to do.

    that is until i saw that clip of tiffany being... completely and utterly lacking in any higher thoughts. i'd compare her to pinky [from pink and the brain] but i love pinky and it would be an insult to him to be compared to her. he at least had a conscience and a heart. i don't understand how anyone would be able to excuse something like that. it's terrifying.

    your article was great. hope you didn't get too much bashing for simply stating your own opinion. [which is another thing... fandom has gotten so elite and fasciss it's annoying and scary.]
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by lilbluejay on Sat 09 May 2009, 6:57 pm

    I'm so glad you wrote this article,
    because I'm so tired of being called ' jealous ' by Sones.
    I've posted comments on youtube related to SNSD,
    and in reply to that, some Sones have been bashing me through personal messages like crazy,
    using words that I cannot describe.
    I hope sones realize that antis arent jealous of their 9 little 'angels '.

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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by Guest on Sun 24 May 2009, 5:05 pm

    Thank you soo much for writing this. Some InSanes need to get it in their heads that if you like an artist, it does NOT mean you worship them.

    And some of them may be able to fend for themselves after they disband. Soo Young could be a DJ, Seo Hyun could train for a bit then be a singer and Yuri would be a model. These are the girls that I like, and this is why!
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by super_jessy on Thu 28 May 2009, 6:35 pm

    Labakittie wrote:
    The ability to unite squabbling fandoms in absolute hatred. Something to not be overlooked.

    I totally agree.
    Stupid Sushi calling DBSK molesters? Am I right? This obviously caused eruptions on Cassiopeia's fan cafe's so I am not surprised if they started it, I don't blame them either.
    Either way, ELFs and Cassies are close, just like the band members and are often seen are sister/brother fanbases.
    The ELFs...they [/we, i wish i could of been there to support my oppas and my fellow ELFs] were effected so badly at the concert. I saw fancams of Sone blocking ELFs way of getting into the venue. That's totally unfair and where do they get the idea they can stop others from seeing their idols? Who do they think they are? And walking over the banner was so dis-respectful. I was truly hurt by that, just watching fancams. If I was there I would of got down and start fighting them...but come to think of it, I wouldn't sink to Sone's level. I also saw fanboys walking over another Super Junior banner. This made me angry and sad also. In the fancams, the ELFs were totally upset and I think they were crying when they tore the SJ banner, and thats not being pathetic but passionate towards their idols. I would too if I was there.
    Then the Triple S's I guess, were probably asked? I don't know, but I'm guessing fangirls's friends were a fan of them and they probably just got together and united?

    I support Dream Concert and I hope they make a stand again this year.
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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

    Post by KangNaMi on Fri 09 Oct 2009, 6:46 am

    You are just amazing!!
    To be honest, I was a fan of SNSD..
    But I became an anti because of 'Genie, Tell Me Your Wish'..
    From then on, I became disgusted..
    Thanks to SNSD, lots of people think Asian girls are stupid and cheap..
    This is really disappointing.. confused

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    Re: SNSD: An inquiry and the results... (PT 1)

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