What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

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    izzybellboo
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    What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by izzybellboo on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 12:08 am

    Pre-reading note:
    There will be many who don’t see eye-to-eye with me. Some of you may not agree with my opinions and take on certain matters. But either way, I hope to touch a chord, nerve, or realization somewhere. Please read carefully and ponder.


    These haters to the left, my, there seem to be quite a lot I’m hoping, on this side…. Let’s unite!

    Let’s ask ourselves this question, WHAT SHOULD WE BE HATING?

    Isn’t it obvious? SNSD, right?

    But what is it that we should hate about SNSD?

    Over the past few months, KPop fans alike including myself have gone through a lot of confusing moments, especially with last year’s lawsuits, and issues with 2PM that are still continuing on into this year of 2010.

    My opinions over many things regarding the fandoms have changed.

    I am writing this as a last remnant of my concerns with the fandoms that I have kept for I feel, far too long. After I write this, I am going on an official hiatus from all things KPop, which also means, I am on a hiatus from STAND.

    Things have been changing and I feel like the purpose of this forum and community is slipping away. I want to leave this message as a hopes that it might rejuvenate purpose and also open up an outlook that I feel strongly about.

    I simply cannot tolerate the behavior and thoughts of the KPop fandoms any longer. When I first got involved in them, it was fun and refreshing. I got in to KPop for the music and some part of me will still remain for that aspect. It’s just the idol groups who are the main face of the KPop scene that are causing me to leave. And the mindsets of the fans.

    I feel like the appreciation for KPop is becoming shallow and already gone through multiple train wrecks. I am giving up trying to put in any form of influence to steer the rabid, misguided fans towards what I believe is what really matters.

    Besides all the cheap auto-tune junk being churned out by song producers (I’m really REALLY disappointed by this, because it was the compositions that really impressed me and drew me into KPop in the first place) these days,
    I feel like the fans are more concerned about images now rather than the music itself. So much that even their idols are losing focus of what they should be marketing.

    I still despise SNSD with all my heart.
    But what has changed is,

    I despise them as a group. Their rabid, and often overly-aggressive )actually, overly-defensive too) fans can’t seem to comprehend that when they say “What have they ever done to you? They’re nice girls,” doesn’t affect my stance in this at all.

    Why? Because when I say I despise their group, I despise their purpose.

    I have no problems with them as individuals. I don’t care whether or not they may be sweet and loving girls in reality, or they may be horrible rude, b*tches.
    The only times I dislike them as individuals is for a select few members who show an utter lack of professionalism that I cannot abide, as a performer myself. Sometimes I feel like a few of the SNSD girls aren’t serious about music at all and are just in the industry for the attention it gives them. That is something I resent greatly. And therefore, I cannot give those individuals respect.

    But I hate them as a group. I hate the reasons for the creation of their group and why they exist in the first place.

    First off, I don’t appreciate a group that’s supposed to represent Asian females of “my generation” with a priority of serving the perverted, sexual desires of men.

    SNSD does NOT represent our generation of Asian females. It represents the foul part of our society where men exert dominance over women and expect us to be submissive objects for their own benefit. It represents what they WANT us to be, and not who we really ARE.

    Perverted ahjusshis in SME were the ones who created this group to represent this. And I choose to hate the representation, as a feminist.

    And as an Asian-American, I live in a country where women are a lot more free in their choices. I am proud to have freedom of speech, and that marriage is an alternative, and not a solidified future. I’m glad to know that I don’t need to have a man or be desired by men to be full of worth.

    But I feel concern for the women back in Asia. Do you know that there are only 2-3 women who hold high positions in the economic industry in South Korea? Do you know that for every dollar a man earns, a woman earns only 46 cents?

    Do you know that there are girls who are chided and humiliated and are told that they are worthless for not having husbands?

    And I have a cousin back in Asia, who has a phD in computer programming. After she married into her husband’s family, she is now a housewife and has not worked since. Her husband is inheriting the family business – a noodle-making factory.

    I’m getting carried away here. Just putting some points across to show where my feelings are.

    Here’s something to think about and why the existence of SNSD as a heavily-advertised group is dangerous for our society.

    When I’m called a “hater” for disliking SNSD, there is always an attack overly used by the defenders;

    “You’re probably jealous because you will never be as pretty as them,”

    “You must be ugly”

    “They have guys who love them and that’s something you can’t have. Is that why you’re so angry?”

    Just as anti-feminists play upon the “ugly” word, so do SNSD fans. It sounds petty, but “ugly” is a powerful weapon.
    Now I have full confidence about myself. I’m not particularly concerned about my physical appearance, but when I am, it’s because I like to think that self-grooming is a form of self-respect.

    But the concept of SNSD teaches, as a “representative of Asian females of this generation”, a message of “This is what you need to be like for men,”

    I feel pity for SNSD in that they are being used as billboards for the ahjusshi population and for SME to promote how they want girls to be. And on the girls part who buy into this unknowingly, if you don’t match that image portrayed by SNSD, you are worthless.

    Worthless for men that is. Isn’t that what it all boils down to? That we end up comparing ourselves and starving ourselves because we’re only worth something when it attracts a man?

    Because apparently, that’s why we exist huh…..

    Are you getting angry as you read this? Yes you should be.

    The fact that appearances are the main concerns of the SNSD fans show just what kind of sentiments are being bred by the marketing tactics of the band. It’s shallow, and is a step hurtling backwards for female empowerment of Asian women.

    We Asian women are terribly behind. And it is this constant teaching of submissiveness and portrayal of the ideal Asian women as drawn up and presented to us like a guideline and request sheet by men that is keeping us back. We need to see past all this and seize our places in high positions that we DO have the ability to achieve!

    We should not groom ourselves to become accessories for men to display. To become objects that will make the man look successful. We live in a new era of thought and century.

    Now I sound like I’m generalize all men. I know there are male feminists out there who believe in female equality too. And I am thankful for those men who have respect for women and don’t see them as accessories.

    If there are any men out there who are reading this and can feel my frustration as a female, please pay heed to the message I am trying to give. You can help improve our society and cultures. Even the Western world looks down on us sometimes because our women are seen as weak and submissive. No wonder so many foreigners like to go to Asia for sex trips.

    Back to SNSD (it’s easy to get carried away with all the other side topics I’m concerned with as a feminist),

    These days, I’m staring to see a little awakening in the mindset of the fandoms, who are starting to recognize, and get sick of the image that SNSD market. I can feel the resentment towards that image, and many fans are starting to step up bravely to address that as girls, they do NOT want to be portrayed the way SNSD are.

    But at the same time, it’s unnerving to see how so many quickly dismiss it, saying “it’s what all the girl bands do. Nothing new. They’re just catering to popular demand,”

    THAT’S what is worrying. That it’s what all the girl bands do, and it’s acceptable. Sure, people are starting to realize the hypocrisy and the damage it means for us, but to blatantly disregard it is terrifying. My only hope is that more and more people will become brave enough and step up and address it, and condemn a part of our society that needs to be amended.

    Because, it is NOT okay for this to keep happening. There are girls who are tired of being marketed like SNSD. There are girls who are seeking real role models, and not role models set for us by the desires of perverts for what they want to tote around and display.

    Pop culture is frighteningly influential. Have you read the lyrics for the SNSD songs? What baffles me even more is how so many can overlook the completely obvious innuendos and images presented by SNSD’s music videos even when they’re right in your face.

    They put themes of submissiveness, like “Tell Me Your Wish”, and the concept of being a genie to grant every man’s desire under the guise of catchy tunes and dances and attractive looks. They have found a way in the music industry to work this to their benefit, and blind so many.

    Wake up, everyone! Look behind the addictive melodies and images! We need to dig out the message, throw it in front of everyone, and condemn it. STAND UP, PEOPLE!

    This is a moral issue. And throughout history it’s been proven that moral issues tend to just scare people off. Nobody wants to attack that sort of problem when it comes to our conscience. But that’s the most important thing, and the most difficult. It’s the thing that needs to be faced honestly, and we can’t keep running away from the issue like this and burying it in lollipops, short skirts, and suggestive lyrics in catchy tunes.

    So until I see a change in the fandoms, I am not returning to KPop. (and besides, all the bands who I consider real artists/singers/musicians/performers are gone at the moment).

    We all at some point got into to KPop for the music. But all this image stuff is blinding us now. I love Korean artists because I think they have brilliant singers. But they used to care about quality, and the mainstream aspect of KPop is dying for me.

    The fact that music is now tying in with the things that try to tear apart my feminist beliefs, doesn’t work well. So I must take my leave of the fandoms. How can I enjoy music like this?

    Hiatus starts now. I have no time to get into all this drama with 2PM Jaebeom fans (no offense) and the DBSK lawsuit has carried on for too long – it makes me angry to see how ineffective SME has been with dealing with this, as well as with Super Junior.

    Besides, I have school to concentrate on already. After all, we antis have lives.

    WHAT SHOULD WE BE HATING?
    WHAT SHOULD WE BE STANDING FOR?

    Until then, keep anti-ing SNSD and be thoroughly against what they represent. Because they don’t represent us Asian females at all. They represent something far more sinister than some of us realize.

    Farewell for now.

    PS:
    I also recommend checking out this blog. It helped motivate me to write this.

    http://thegrandnarrative.wordpress.com/
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    POWitszROSIE
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by POWitszROSIE on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 12:47 am

    i read through every single solitary word there was in your essay.
    i agree 100%
    I'm actually fed up with all the fandoms especially since i WAS a fan of some clubs but the way they blame their CEO's for everything that's happening, it pisses me off every time they say something.
    i would stop all kpop all together also but it's just too hard for me.

    all the best wishes to you <3
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by red_butterfly on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 1:28 am

    Amen sista! ><
    but yeah I see what you're saying.
    (quoted from that article you cited) "Rather, that despite their innocent expressions, Girls’ Generation’s clothes, accessories and lyrics are all designed to provoke men into having sexual fantasies about them." while this isn't the only reason why I don't like them, this is certainly one of the biggest reasons.

    best of luck for whatever the future brings!!!
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by XxZLY_CSJHxX on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 4:03 am

    I'm afraid to say that fandom won't change.
    Companies cater to fans who don't really care about the music and they aren't about to stop. It's working perfectly, isn't it? It brings in plenty of chash...
    Even some of my fav artists are hiding their talent for popularity.
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by Starr on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 12:27 pm

    I love this article! You are speaking the truth and it is so sad that people will never see that. This is the reason why I am against SNSD. I do not even call myself an anti. I am protesting.

    I decided a while ago that I wanted to lose weight. I'm not overweight or anything, I just wanted to get in shape. Anyway, I kept getting off track and I could not figure out why. After some reflection, I realized that it was because I had a lame motive for losing weight. I wanted to be seen as attractive to guys. That is the dumbest reason to do something ever! Now, I have decide that I will be losing weight, but not for a man. I will be losing weight for myself and for my health. Surprise number one
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by TiinaPANDA on Tue 16 Feb 2010, 5:37 pm

    Preach on girl!!

    Yes, I was very similar to the women/girls you said that wanted to changed themselves for men.
    I remember a while ago, I will admit it; I wanted to be like and look like a certain member from SNSD. Because, I thought, that was what men wanted. Men, I thought, didn't want me, they wanted that. I suffered so much thinking this way. Until, my mother told me to, “Never change yourself for someone, change only for yourself and because you want too”.

    And before your amazing post, (after I got over my insecurity) I thought they were sending a bad image to young females in Korea.
    Even around the world, since it got me loathing myself.
    I wish most of the people in South Korea, or should I say most of the men in South Korea, would accept a female’s uniqueness and personality a bit more than so now. It’s all about LOOKS and LOOKS!
    It gets so frustrating at times. We’re human, and sometimes we don’t want to put on this façade of innocence cuteness. Or get surgery to look better in their eyes.
    The many male Idol stars, picking their “ideal women”, among the Plastic Generation, honestly, make me think twice about them.

    I think I’m going to cut the KPop myself. My mother been advising me too; since I now have a “supporter”, lol, I’m going to try too. Because it’s stressing me out. The love and hate of it. The shallowness and people who have/had talent forsake it to become popular (like 2PM). I love the guys from 2PM, but you got to admit some are in it for the popularity now. I miss the old 2PM (No, not because Jaebum left. The 2PM who sang and danced, and not take of their shirts in almost every single performance they have.).
    Anyways, I said too much already, but, it’s just so nice to read someone with common sense you know.
    And I hope I didn’t make anyone angry and sorry if I was off topic sometimes.
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by queenbqty on Wed 17 Feb 2010, 12:14 am

    I get where you are coming from and applaud your decision to concentrate on your schooling and your feminist convictions. I share your feminist objections to snsd and I do realize that there are many big problems in the kpop business, but I will not give up kpop because of its obvious flaws, the biggest example being the inexplicable popularity of snsd.

    I got into kpop because of my admiration for the hard work and training of the artists and the awesome talent that the majority of the kpop artists display. Many artists are literally slaves to their management companies, who take advantage of their desires and dreams. Its this idol crap in kpop that is very irritating, all this image stuff and having to be physically attractive in order to fulfill your artistic dreams. But in the majority of idol groups, the physical attractiveness is backed up by awesome talent DBSK, SS501, 2AM, 2PM, BIG BANG, and many others are very attractive but they also have great singing and dancing talent. I am mostly into male groups but I also like and admire Wonder Girls, BEG, 2NE1, BOA, Lee Hyori, 4 minute, etc. The thing that sets snsd apart from all of the above and why I despise them is because they are really the only group that I consider an "Idol Group", its all about looks with minimal talent. Because snsd supposedly are "beautiful" the fact that they give awful performances and objectify women, in addition to being rude and disrespectful, despite all this, they are glorified as artists, when they are not.

    Actually snsd isn't even about their so called beauty, truth be told, they are about SEX; tight pants, booty shorts, bare midriffs, their singing is bad, their dancing is unsynchronized and uncoordinated and its all excused because they are supposedly "sexy" and "beautiful".

    Yeah, men control the kpop business, but don't men dominate every business in every country. Maybe, the kpop business is more hypocritical because South Korea is supposed to be such a conservative country, but they certainly are not the only country that oppresses and degrades women, the conservatism of the country just makes it more obvious.

    Sorry to go on, but my feminist beliefs just strengthen my resolve to stay a member of STAND, as long as it takes. Kpop is expanding far beyond the borders of South Korea and that exposure is, I think, a good thing. snsd does not just degrade the image of asian women, they degrade the image of ALL women. They also make kpop look ridiculous, when it is for the most part a treasure trove of talent. I will always love kpop and will always be a civil anti of snsd until they cease to exist as an entity, I will continue to STAND!
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by hatianhime on Wed 17 Feb 2010, 10:34 am

    *applause*
    I agree with everyone on here.
    SNSD doesn't just badly represent Asian Women.
    But us Westerners also. So many people are discovering K-Pop and when they See SNSD they don't see past the "cuteness" and "innocence" I will admit.
    When I first got into K-Pop I watched the Gee video. Yea it was catchy.

    But then I was turning into an insane. I had it on my ipod and listened to it 24/7. I even searched up videos to figure out how to do the dance. Next thing I know I had the dance memorized and was always singing the song. I actually even thought that Jessicka and Seo Who? were pretty.
    At that point I wanted to be Jessicka's Haitian Twin. I was pitiful.
    Very sad
    So me practically an insane googled up about my "beloved idols". I read the news articles and all the disrespecting and rude things they have done.

    And I am happy to say it brought me too the light. Of course me practically being an insane, I did not want to believe that people as "innocent" as them could do such things at first. Then I learned about STAND and I realized that all of this was true, all the rude things they have done was true. I even watched a video on youtube where there fans had met them outside a store.

    The fans made a walkway for them and tried to open the door for them but Tardffany and Jessicka and ewwri Completely ignored them.

    Anyways I am glad you brought this up. I agree with you 100%. I probably won't stop my addiction to K-Pop. I am just glad I was brought back before it was too late.

    I am glad there are girls Like Wonder Girls too represent my age.

    This just goes to show what bad influence these girls actually have on girls my age.

    Haha well thats my life story sorry if that was too long.
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by GlynnnTS on Thu 18 Feb 2010, 8:15 am

    Round of applause!
    I totally agree with you.
    It's a shame that SNSD are representing us, as Asian Women.
    Westerners and even Indians look down on us.

    When i first got into kpop was because of Boys Over Flower.
    I started getting crazy with SS501.
    Which then lead me to SuperJunior.
    Coincidentally, i passed by the Gee video.
    I clicked it on and the next thing i knew was that it was on my handphone, ipod, computer.
    It was my 24/7 music.
    (which what hatianhime stated)
    I started going,
    'wow, they are so pretty'
    'I like Jessica!'
    'Tae Yeon's voice is so nice!'
    *yea, as if.*

    My friends around me was influenced by the song as well.
    So every time when we are free we would be singing and dancing the song.
    It was pathetic.
    We got hooked up by the songs.

    Just then, when i wanted to be a SNSD fan, i saw the dream concert '08 .
    Obviously, i wouldn't believe it so.
    I started googling about it.
    And, tada, it was what made me today.

    Seriously, when i think about this it's really embarrassing.
    Okay, i getting off topic.
    Well that's part of my story.

    Anyway,
    my feminist beliefs makes me want to stay united with STAND.
    South Korea is suppose to be a conservative country.
    But with these girls here, it's shame to all females.
    Yeah, the fans can say it's natural for them to be wearing SHORT shorts, tight pants(which shows their holy butt) and high boots.
    Yes, for a teenager it's natural.
    I wear shorts too, but not SHORT shorts.
    I don't wear high boots
    and i despise tight pants.
    It's a free show every time they get up the stage for a performance.
    Why don't they just get to some brothel and sell their bodies there.
    Instead of suffering in the company,
    practicing dancing and singing.
    Waste of time isn't it, TardFanny?

    Alright, this is getting longer.
    I hope this doesn't bores you.

    Best of luck to you for your future!
    I really hope you would come back to kpop industrial.
    But, i wish that when you come back,
    you would hold your head high and be a proud woman.
    Keep your head held high, and let others know that SNSD needs to be demolished.
    STAND UP!
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by dBsK_luv on Fri 26 Feb 2010, 6:49 am

    Everyone's agreeing with you...and i understand why to some extent.
    You speak the truth~
    All this controversies, and Kpop it's self are changing, it's not how it used to be.
    Fandoms...I wouldn't generalize that. Maybe certain fans i guess. I have a fandom of TVXQ, but not because their image, because they have talent and have soul in there voice. They are role models and i respect them as artists.
    Which is why i wonder despise Sones, because all i hear from them, is that they are pretty...
    Why do we STAND? Against SNSD and what they stand for...but it's obvious there are many members who dislike SNSD because of their fans...and i don't blame them.
    Disappoints me whats become of Kpop and the fandoms.
    Fandoms used to be about loving the group and individuals and our respects for them as role models. Now a fandom's definition is to just plainly like them?

    Which brings the question...Why should we STAND?
    Because they can't sing or dance? NO
    Because of how rude their fans are? NO
    Because their ugly? NO
    ...
    We really should be STANDing because of what they represent. They aren't role models, and they definately don't represent "Girls Generation"

    --------------
    Good luck on your break from Kpop and we hope you come back!
    Thank you for this Topic, really opened my eyes to see how Kpop has become.
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by ihateinsanes on Sun 28 Feb 2010, 1:54 pm

    I wish you best of luck in whatever you do! I hope your liking for Kpop returns soon & I also hope to see you back at STAND sharing your insights with such articles. Good luck! Surprise

    WHY DO I STAND?

    my side of the story :

    I for one joined this forum because of my immense hatred for Sones or should I say Insanes. To be honest before all the bashings began I was neutral with SNSD. I heard about all the rude distasteful things they did but I thought I’d rather ignore that group than be an anti. That neutral/I-can’t-care-less attitude of mine vanished when Sones started barging into videos of Wonder Girls and bashed like there was no tomorrow.

    I am a Wonderful & I take pride in idolizing Wonder Girls.

    Do I really need a Sone to tell me how SNSD are ‘better’ than Wonder Girls? NO.

    Do I really need a Sone to tell me how SNSD are ‘prettier’ than Wonder Girls? NO.

    Do I really need a Sone to tell me how SNSD are ‘more loved’ than Wonder Girls? NO.

    and lastly do I really need to hear from a bunch of lunatics on how SNSD own Wonder Girls? HECK NO.

    I absolutely DESPISE Sones from the bottom of my heart. they are psychotic, unreasonable, unbelievably rude & absolutely blinded by their ‘love’ for SNSD. I am a fan of many bands in south korea especially Wonder Girls but I’ve never insisted that my idols are perfect or blameless unlike a certain other fangroup.

    Sones can never defend SNSD without dragging in another girl group or the other girl group’s fans. If you say something even remotely negative about SNSD bam! In jumps in the Insane squad of Deulsionals and they’ll start bashing other girl groups & other fangroups instead of coming up with a good counter argument for the accusations.

    Sones will be the ultimate reason for SNSD’s undoing. I can tell you one thing for sure. with Sones around SNSD doesn’t need antis. The fans themselves will cause the downfall of their favourite girl group without ANY help from us antis.

    I only have two words for psychotic Sones. GROW UP! stop barking like a mad dog in videos of other girl groups. Are you Sones so afraid that other girl groups might outshine SNSD that you resort to going into videos of WG, Kara, After School, Rainbow etc etc and bashing? SHUT UP & I’m sure SNSD will have a lot less antis.

    I take pride in my fandom but my fandom isn’t my whole life. there are limits to everything & Sones should learn not to overstep the border when it comes to defending their ‘girls’.

    Now SNSD..

    What do I hate about SNSD? I hate that pseudo virgin image they portray while flashing their crotches at the camera. I hate how they can get away with everything because SME buys off anyone who tries to speak up against them. I hate how talented artists don’t get the chance to shine anymore because of horny ajhusshis paying double or even triple to see SNSD at the top of the music charts. I hate how their fans get outraged when someone talks about their fake virginal image.

    Lastly I HATE how partial SME is towards SNSD.

    Hello… DBSK’s lawsuit, SuJu’s Hankyung’s lawsuit? Ring a bell? Yeah it should. Instead that worthless porn bar under the excuse of an entertainment company SUES an artist for drawing sextons of SNSD. Pfft.. what kind of bullcrap is that? mr lee soo man himself has said that SNSD were targeted in men towards their 30’s & 40’s. in simpler words SNSD are pedo-bait. So why sue a guy for drawing sextoons of girls who are supposed to be pedo-bait? Why not focus your energy on more important pressing issues like the two lawsuits slapped in your face by your employees??

    That company not only ignores pressing court matters inside they also ignore other artists inside SME who don’t get squat for signing up with SME. SNSD do not make up the whole of SME. Am I right? then why are they always so over promoted while the rest of the artists, the ACTUAL talented ones are left in the darkness?

    Don’t CSJH deserve a Korean comeback? Instead they are shoved away in Japan. Doesn’t Zhang Li Yin deserve a Korean album? Yet she remains out of sigh in China. Don’t F[x] deserve more promotions since they’ve just started out? Nope. They lay forgotten as SNSD comes back with their ‘oh’ so original ‘OH!’.

    Kpop really needs some talented artists to give it back it’s lost sparkle. Nowadays it’s all about buttcheeks & booty shorts and ZERO talent or charm.

    If there are any jobless Sones who are reading this, yes I know there are. There always are some poor pathetic losers who’d rather stalk an anti forum than worship their nine angels. I’d just like to tell you something.
    Please don’t insult my intelligence & all of our other members intelligence by saying that we only hate SNSD because “you are jealous!” “you are ugly!” “you can only dream to be as pretty as SNSD!”

    Let me emphasize my point. Do I dislike SNSD because they’re plastic? NO. Do I dislike SNSD because they are pretty? NO. Do I dislike SNSD because my favourite male idols like them? NO. Do I dislike SNSD because of their fans, eg, psychotic Sones? YES!

    If I was supposed to be jealous of female groups or female artists then I should be jealous of :

    Wonder Girls - for being charismatic, humble, original. well-mannered and adored by millions even if they are not best singers around. They’ve also collaborated with Big Bang many times.

    Kara – for being unpretentiously cute & for being close to SS501 whom I adore.

    After School – for always dancing up a storm onstage & for being so sexy without resorting to crotch flashing at the camera.

    Lee Hyori – for being undeniably & incredibly sexy. This woman defines ‘Sexy’. She makes men of all ages go nuts with her sex appeal & she has tons of fanboys amongst male idols.

    BoA – for being an all-rounded performer with oodles of charisma and for being close to DBSK.

    CSJH – for being their amazing talented selves. They can do anything! Perfectly. They are also close to DBSK.

    I should also hate all these girls/women right since I’m just a jealous ugly fangirl of boybands? But NO. I don’t hate all those amazing ladies I’ve listed out. I love, respect & admire them because they make me proud to be a woman.

    They don’t degrade womenkind in general. They don’t act like needy teenagers dying for some love from their sugar daddies. They don’t flash their crotches at the camera while singing songs overflowing with sexual innuendoes. Wonder Girls & Kara are actually good role models for young girls & for artists like Lee Hyori, BoA, After School & CSJH they are great role models for more mature women. I love you

    I suggest that instead of accusing STANDers of being jealous, ugly or insecure Sones should : go watch videos of SNSD, spazz about their latest scandals or freak out about their butt cheeks hanging out of their booty shorts.

    Don’t stalk antis, steal our forum’s banner, steal our member’s signatures and then create anti videos dedicated to us. You want to hate us? Have some originality or maybe you can ask SME to buy you guys some originality.

    Sorry fellow STAND members, I only said the above because there seems to be an influx of Sones who love to read STAND’s articles & then create accounts to argue with us or even worse create accounts and stalk us within the forums & steal our siggies & stuff. tired
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by soshi? on Sat 20 Mar 2010, 5:23 am

    AMEN. kekeke. WonderGirls Jjang (;
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    happyme
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by happyme on Fri 07 May 2010, 12:04 am

    i love your article so much!!! i couldn't word my dislike of them before correctly...but now you've done it for me! I love you
    i really hate it when sones say that we're just jealous of female group's looks and talents blah blah blah.....if i was jealous, then wouldn't i be of every girl group? but how can i be when i love and respect females like wonder girls or hyori? it just makes me really mad and annoyed Very sad
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by ai_sumairu on Fri 07 May 2010, 6:33 am

    Wonder Girls - for being charismatic, humble, original. well-mannered and adored by millions even if they are not best singers around. They’ve also collaborated with Big Bang many times.

    Kara – for being unpretentiously cute & for being close to SS501 whom I adore.

    After School – for always dancing up a storm onstage & for being so sexy without resorting to crotch flashing at the camera.

    Lee Hyori – for being undeniably & incredibly sexy. This woman defines ‘Sexy’. She makes men of all ages go nuts with her sex appeal & she has tons of fanboys amongst male idols.

    BoA – for being an all-rounded performer with oodles of charisma and for being close to DBSK.

    CSJH – for being their amazing talented selves. They can do anything! Perfectly. They are also close to DBSK.

    I should also hate all these girls/women right since I’m just a jealous ugly fangirl of boybands? But NO. I don’t hate all those amazing ladies I’ve listed out. I love, respect & admire them because they make me proud to be a woman.

    They don’t degrade womenkind in general. They don’t act like needy teenagers dying for some love from their sugar daddies. They don’t flash their crotches at the camera while singing songs overflowing with sexual innuendoes. Wonder Girls & Kara are actually good role models for young girls & for artists like Lee Hyori, BoA, After School & CSJH they are great role models for more mature women.

    I agree with everything. If I'm so jealous of those so-called 'beauties' by insanes, then I should hate all these girl groups but I don't. I actually love them and respect them. Because unlike those plastics, they know how to respect other people and other fcs. I totally agree ihateinsanes. I'm a proud Wonderful & Shapley myself. WG is actually my first Kpop girl group aside from CSJH.
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    antigolfasgeneration
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by antigolfasgeneration on Wed 09 Jun 2010, 4:49 am

    This is one of the best articles i have read in STAND.
    I read it several months ago and I found it very interesting, true, and also worrying and sad.
    Although you already did go on hiatus and the most probably is that you don’t read my response, I wanted to write it anyway.

    I personally agree very much with many of the statements made here. A lot of them are things I myself had been thinking since several years ago.
    I actually could say here a lot about it, about my personal life experience, but I don’t want this to became too personal and too long / boring.

    I think is very sad that we women grow with the thought that WE HAVE to be pretty / beautiful.
    As if we really have to. Like an obligation.
    Is stupid and so unfair. And that is for centuries… sadly the society is ruled by men since so many centuries ago, and don’t seem that will change.
    So men decide we have to be “pretty” because we are not useful for nothing else. They decide what features should we have. They decide everything. They decide what “beauty” is, what beauty must be, what beauty should look like.
    (and then, they criticize woman for being so worried for their looks. Ironic and stupid, right?).

    I am 28 years old (since February) and since several years ago (perhaps 8 years ago) I decided to not get marry.
    I don’t know what is going to happen in the future (I’m not a psychic) but that is my plan. I want to be completely single as I am now, and stay like that. With God’s help and my own will help, I really hope I can accomplish that.
    I want to stay single, really single (that means no “boyfriends”, “free love” or whatsoever).

    I also like to think marriage is an option, not an obligation nor anything of the sort.


    I think these 9 snsd girls (and their parents, and of course their company) are perfectly aware of how are they seen.
    And I think they are very happy with that. They accept that, they agree with that, they are very happy with that
    And that makes it SO MUCH MORE SAD.

    They like so much to be seen and treated as objects.
    BECAUSE THAT IS HOW THEY VALUE THEMSELVES: they worth as long as they please men.
    So they enjoy it and they are proud of it.

    I have seen a similar attitude in so many women that go so proud through life, just because they have a man in their life.
    (however the man is: he could be lazy, and/or violent or whatever… and they are still proud).
    It’s so depressing.

    All that “male supremacy” is truly sickening, tiring, discouraging.
    I think I couldn’t live in Korea because of that. As much as I would like to visit...
    but to live there?...
    Although in my own country we live the male supremacy too. Very much so…


    No woman should be treated as just a decoration / pleasure object. As baby making machine. As slave, as servant. As trophies / prizes to show off.
    No woman should be mistreated for being “ugly” or for being single ALL HER LIFE (whether it be her own decision or not).
    No woman should value themselves just as long as they are being liked by men.
    Woman should being valued by their true values… moral values… for her intellect…
    TO ME THERE IS MORE, SO MUCH MORE than being “pretty”, being liked by men, marry, have children, cook, laundry, die…
    To me there is much more than “love” ('''romantic''' love, whatever).
    There is so many types of life, of vocation, of goals!!!


    Frustrating, infuriating, unfair… they reality is unfair…
    This subject is so long and complicated… and one can say much more…
    I think I could go on and on, and on…
    But for now, for this topic, I think I will stop here.

    And sometimes I honestly have thought about going on hiatus from Kpop.
    Not only for this, but in general because all related to snsd and kpop and many other things.


    Thank you for your article, and although you are on hiatus, although you aren’t going to read this, and although we don’t know eachother, etc., I wish you all the best, and whatever you decide, if you decide to comeback from your hiatus or not, I hope is the best decision for you.
    My best regards.


    P.S. I also read one of the articles about snsd on the link you gave. And it was interesting but really depressing. But it’s true of course and it confirms what I said: they are happy and proud to be treated as decoration and pleasure objects.

    Marynna
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by Marynna on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 1:52 am

    I usually don't go on forums like this because I'm not an anti of any artist, nor am I a super-fan of SNSD or anyone. I just enjoy theirs and other artists music (Kara, Secret, 4minute, T-ara, etc.) I'm a music major at a university, also studying a little dance. I love music in general. I can't help it. It's been a part of my life since I was little.

    But I feel something needs to be said here, because I'm sick and tired of hearing things like this (against lots of artists, but it seems to be especially strong towards SNSD).

    Do I think they're "angels" or "goddesses", as some fans call them? No. They're human. College-age girls. They make mistakes, and I don't think it's right for every single one to be held against them. Nor do I think it's right for any of you to be pointing fingers. What I like about them is that they're not fake and they don't make an attempt to act like they're perfect. They try hard to be respectful but sometimes it happens that they aren't. And unless the rest of you are completely flawless, you don't have the right to judge them, nor any other artist that screws up in front of the world. Take out the log in your own eye before you look at the speck in someone else's.

    Do I think they're the best singers in the world? No. Do I think they have talent and have worked hard to improve these past few years? Definitely. And I respect them for that. Especially Hyoyeon and Yoona. It is so unbelievably hard to dance and sing, let alone dance and sing well. Most people don't realize it takes a lot of body strength and stamina to do these things. Also, unless you've studied music, you can't realize the strain singing and practicing day after day puts on your voice. If they have to lip-sync, so what? Most of the time, they're singing live. Even great artists like Namie Amuro have lip-synced. I'm sure they wish they could sing live all the time. But sometimes, to save your voice you really don't have any other option. And they don't just sing, they do tv shows, modeling, radio, etc. It's a lot of work and so many hours of your time. I don't think most of you here would be able to survive a few hours in any of your favorite artists' shoes.

    As for the whole clothing issue...oh get over it already. Other K-pop artists have dressed just the same or worse (yes, including the Wonder Girls). It blows my mind how out of proportion arguments get over outfits. Geez.

    Plastic surgery? Yeah...um, no. They didn't get any. Sorry to disappoint you. I look really different from when I was in high school four years ago. But I never got plastic surgery. I like the way God made me, thank you. Plus...makeup, exercise, and a healthy diet works wonders. (I mean on me. They don't really need it.)

    I didn't create this account to argue with anyone, because you all are certainly welcome to your opinion, just as I can have mine. I'm not defending them because I think they're perfect. I'm defending them because they're people too, and they don't deserve to have these things said about them. I can't stand it when I see girls (or guys) put down other girls like this. It's not a nice thing to do, no matter if you like them or not. I'm pretty sure they would cry if they read some of the things on here. It would hurt their feelings. Maybe it's because I'm the same age as they are and I love music as much as they do. I dunno. I'm also super-ultra sensitive to people's feelings. I used to cry all the time when I was a kid and people said mean things to each other.

    I think you all should be ashamed of yourselves. You may word things differently and without foul language, but you're basically saying the same things as other antis. If you're peaceful, forums like this wouldn't exsist and you'd just leave these artists alone.

    Sorry. I don't mean to be disrespectful to people here. But this kind of stuff isn't okay against anyone.
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    queenbqty
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by queenbqty on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 8:00 am

    ^I am not going to argue with you because arguing with people like you is pointless, but I will say that you have no business being here. This is an ANTI-SNSD Forum, so if you are not an anti, what are you here for? But the answer to that is simple, you think you are going to change minds with your so-called intellectual defense of the fake plastics.

    snsd is a disgusting, disgraceful, unprofessional, mostly untalented, anorexicly unhealthy looking, mostly unattractive, pathetic excuse for an entertainment group.
    WE ARE NOT ENTERTAINED!! So, the plastics should go away so more deserving groups with true talent and professionalism and who understand hard work will not be overshadowed and leeched off of by the terrible 9-headed plastic slut machine called snsd.

    Lastly,
    Just GTFO!
    PEACE!

    bigbangislove
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by bigbangislove on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 8:09 am

    Marynna, STFU and go ride off into the sunset on your high-horse. This is way healthier than a lot of the alternatives we could be doing. Like sending death-threats to them PERSONALLY or trying t poison them like ANTI's have done to DBSK's Yunho in the past. If I want to voice my disgust for these nine girls then I'll do it. Because voicing anger or discontent is a lot healthier than bottling it up.

    GTFO, clearly you DO want an argument. How the heck are you gonna sign up for an ANTI forum, defend the artist the anti forum is for and then expect NOT to cause an argument? You're so full of crap like SNSD and every other SONE.

    Stop playing innocent just like your innocent little idols do when they shamelessly sing sexual lyrics with half their butts hanging out while pole-dancing and waving lollipops around.

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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by charmmyxmew on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 5:51 am

    @Marynna

    Seriously, by comparing yourself to defend SNSD is pathetic, the reasons you used are pathetic and the way you are acting is pathetic.

    You claim you don't want arguments and yet you continue to attack STAND and it's members. Yes, we are allowed to have our opinions, but it's obvious that you can't accept anything we STANDers have to say. Since most of our opinions are negative, and it clearly hurts you, you just had to lash out and make us out to be a bunch of idiots, but the truth is, you're only making yourself look stupid. It shows how ignorant you are.

    STAND exsists because we need a place away from people like you. A place where we can share our opinions with out being judged and labelled. You, are a fine exaple of those people, and should be ashamed of youself.

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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by bigbangislove on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 7:03 am

    And then SONEs cry when ANTIs invade SONE spaces...yet they invade us unapologetically.
    Pathetic little whiners...just like their nine "Goddesses".
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    Han Ri Gi
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by Han Ri Gi on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 7:51 am

    @Marynna

    u should back to ur place where u can praise ur idols....here isn't ur place....it's useless if u praise or defend ur idols here....it's antis forum not fans forum.....don't ever think u'll make us become sone okay?it's pointless and useless


    so proud

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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by charmmyxmew on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 8:14 am

    @ bigbangislove

    I have no problems with the invasion, concidering the amount of sones I've seen that just don't seem to grasp the idea of not every one worships these 9. They can come in here and post on every single topic defending their idols, and I still wouldn't care. But it just proves how desperate they are.

    But I do have problems with them being so rude and arrogant. Coming in here attacking the fourm itself and the members while using so-called intellectual defense, trying to change our minds and make us feel bad about ourselves are just ridiculous.

    oj1290
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by oj1290 on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 6:18 pm

    ^^^
    nice responses guys. you really ripped her a new one!
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    xLiyinfanx
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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by xLiyinfanx on Mon 13 Jun 2011, 11:57 am

    oj1290 wrote:^^^
    nice responses guys. you really ripped her a new one!

    Call me stupid, but I don't quite get if you mean it like that or if that was sarcasm.

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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

    Post by bigbangislove on Mon 13 Jun 2011, 3:53 pm

    olj1290 is a SONE.
    Just ignore them like the rest of us do.

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    Re: What should we be STANDing for? (Another feminist article)

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